OF THE U.S.-RUSSIA JOINT COMMISSION ON
PRISONERS OF WAR/MISSING IN ACTION
(NOVEMBER 15, 2000)
The closing session of the Seventeenth Plenum of the U.S.-Russia Joint Commission on Prisoners of War/Missing in Action (USRJC) was held on November 15, 2000 at 2:00 p.m. at the National Hotel in Moscow.
U.S. CO-CHAIRMAN'S REMARKS
General Lajoie convened the closing session by thanking everyone for their efforts and offered the respective working group Co-Chairmen a chance to report on their work. He noted that, after these reports have been heard, he and General Zolotarev will take the opportunity to give their own assessments of the Seventeenth Plenum and will sign the Executive Summary of the Commission's Joint Report on work conducted from 1995-2000.
U.S. Co-Chairman, World War II Working Group
Mr. McReynolds provided a summary of the work of the working group. First, he noted that the group had conducted a review of the Kamchatka mission and had agreed to begin planning for a full-scale excavation of the site tentatively scheduled for summer 2001. To support the on-going investigation of the PV-1 loss, the U.S. side requested an archival search be conducted for any records related to a reported 1970 mission to the site by a Soviet military team. The U.S. side provided copies of reports on interviews with Mr. Khotin and Mr. Cheresko, both of which relate to the PV-1 incident and may assist the Russians' search.
In response to a Russian request, Mr. McReynolds said the U.S. side provided three U.S. Air Force operational reports on P-38 air activity near Vienna on April 2, 1945.
A detailed discussion was held on the list of 39 U.S. POWs who were in Soviet hands at the end of World War II. Mr. McReynolds reported that the discussion focused on documentary records of Soviet Convoy Troops and also on the specific case of Rudolph Frisch. The Russian side agreed to provide a personal data card on Rudolph Frisch. Mr. McReynolds stated that both sides of the working group agreed that many questions remain on resolving the fate of the 39 individuals on the list.
Another task before the group, Mr. McReynolds related, is clarification of the details of the Kogan ring. On this point, the U.S. side agreed to prepare a background briefing on the case and the Russian side agreed to provide any documentation it could find which may shed light on the origin of the ring.
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The working group held a discussion of the memoirs and "Gulag Study." Mr. McReynolds stated the two sides agreed to continue discussion of ways to follow up on the information contained in these reports.
Mr. McReynolds was pleased to report that the Russian side had agreed to the U.S. draft of the working group report, with minor modifications. The U.S. side accepted these modifications, and Mr. McReynolds thus reported completion of this task to the Commission's two Co-Chairmen.
On a personal note, Mr. McReynolds announced his retirement after 31 years at the U.S. National Archives. He described his work with the Commission as among the most significant and rewarding periods in his long career. The opportunity to meet and talk with families of POWs and MIAs and share with them the results of interviews and archival research, especially in those cases where a positive resolution was obtained, truly was an inspiring experience, Mr. McReynolds said. He emphasized the critical role of archival research in the Commission's work and was proud to have played a part in that effort. He wished everyone success in the grand humanitarian work of the Commission and expressed regret that he would no longer be an active participant in such a noble undertaking.
Russian Co-Chairman, World War II Working Group
Colonel Nikiforov endorsed the remarks made by Mr. McReynolds on the work of the WWII WG and looked forward to clarifying further those questions which still remain. Colonel Nikiforov expressed his belief that the work of the WWII WG has had and will continue to have much significance in the context of the Commission's overall efforts.
For the majority of issues which the working group discussed, more specific and detailed information provided by the U.S. side will allow the Russian side to conduct more deliberately and efficiently follow-on research, Colonel Nikiforov said. To illustrate this point, he mentioned the Kogan ring case and the incident of the PV-1 Ventura patrol bomber.
Colonel Nikiforov thanked Mr. McReynolds for his hard work and dedication and wished him well in retirement. In closing, he quoted the last line of the working group's Joint Report as an appropriate testimonial to the Commission's objectives: "With a sense of pride in what has been accomplished and renewed dedication to what remains to be done, the working group looks forward to continuing its work."
U.S. Co-Chairman, Cold War Working Group
Mr. Clift stated the talks during the working group sessions had been detailed and productive during both days. He believed these were the most productive CWWG sessions for some time. He thanked Colonel Vinogradov and his colleagues on behalf of the U.S. side for this productive work.
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Mr. Clift continued, saying the working group had reviewed research from the past few months on three Cold War losses, the 1 July 1960 shoot down, the 8 April 1950 shoot down, and the 6 November 1951 shoot down incidents. The two sides had agreed on the next steps to be taken on these cases. They had also agreed on the next stage of research for three other cases: the 13 June 1952; 29 July 1953, and 18 April 1955 incidents. A discussion of the GULAG memoir as it related to the 13 June 1952 case was conducted. The importance of the Border Guards Archives was discussed within the context of defining the next phase of research on all these cases. Mr. Clift called on the staff at the Moscow office of the Joint Commission Support Directorate to work closely with the Russian side on this. Finally, Mr. Clift noted he had presented Colonel Vinogradov a draft of the CWWG section of the Commission's five-year Joint Report.
Russian Co-Chairman, Cold War Working Group
In his comments, Colonel Vinogradov said he wanted to mention the two sides had reached consensus on certain incidents and facts. He said he thought it was more necessary than ever to look back and see what had been done in the past ten years, because now we could re-examine our work with the knowledge and capabilities we now possessed. Looking to the future, Colonel Vinogradov thought there would be some closure, although perhaps it was a little premature to express this.
Colonel Vinogradov said representatives of military archives had also contributed to the working group discussions. [Captain 1 st Rank Kazachenko, a representative of the Moscow Branch of the Central Naval Archives attended the first working group session.] Colonel Vinogradov noted that the group very much appreciated the independent expertise of Admiral Novyy and his work in the Central Naval Archives. The working group conducted a professional discussion on archival research. Colonel Vinogradov noted it is very difficult to verify much of the information the Commission receives. But he hoped all the same to do so with the help of further archival research.
As for the Joint Report, Colonel Vinogradov said the Russian side wished to add some language about the work the U.S. side had done to account for Russian losses.
Colonel Vinogradov noted the Commission began its work in the early 1990s, and issues that arose were not always followed up completely. He regretted the Border Guards representative was not present at this Plenum; nor was Mr. Biryukov, who handles the issue of missing Soviet servicemen from Afghanistan. Colonel Vinogradov said he would pass the information provided by Mr. Clift on three Soviet servicemen to Mr. Biryukov. In closing, Colonel Vinogradov said he was convinced that, as we parted, there was hope for continued cooperation and respect by both sides.
U.S. Co-Chairman, Korean War Working Group
Mr. Kass expressed appreciation for two days of productive discussions and visits which he believed will further the working group's efforts. He recalled that at the opening session Colonel Orlov and he had remarked on the number of open issues which were still
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before the working group. He stated that, in large measure, the working group had either addressed these questions or moved significantly forward on resolving them.
Referring to work done at the Central Archives of the Russian Ministry of Defense at Podolsk, Mr. Kass stated that, in working group sessions and during a visit to Podolsk with Colonel Ovchinnikov, Colonel Chuvashin and Colonel Iliynkov conducted earlier in the day, significant progress had been made. The importance of access to documents available at the archives was now clearly understood. Mr. Kass expressed the hope that a comprehensive review of all materials related to U.S. MIAs from the Korean War would be conducted.
He then turned to the working group's lengthy discussion on the "Gulag Study" and next steps that might be taken to validate reports of American POWs sighted in the Soviet Gulag system. Accepting the fact that these reports require further examination, the Russian side responded favorably to U.S. efforts aimed at broadening the search for documentary evidence.
The U.S. side received a list of 23 Soviet pilots who were killed in action during the Korean War and accepted a request to identify and locate for possible interviews U.S. veterans who may be able to shed light on the circumstances of loss of these pilots.
In concluding his remarks, Mr. Kass noted the cooperative relationship that characterized the working group's deliberations and expressed the hope that additional progress would ensue in the months ahead.
Russian Co-Chairman, Korean War Working Group
Colonel Orlov reported that, as usual, the working group discussed the results and outstanding issues from the previous year's work. He recalled that, a year ago, the U.S. side received permission to spend eight days per month working at the Podolsk archives. In this time the U.S. side has reviewed more than 14,000 pages of documents for relevant information. Many of the documents contain the names of veterans who are potentially knowledgeable and may be interviewed by Commission staff. The working group has already interviewed more than 600 such witnesses. As a result of the work conducted thus far, Colonel Orlov noted, the circumstances of loss of 139 U.S. servicemen have been clarified. He stated that both archival work and interviews are continuing.
With the help of the U.S. side, the Russian side has successfully identified the circumstances of loss of 57 Soviet Korean War pilots and, in some cases, has located their burial places. Colonel Orlov reported that the U.S. side submitted a report correlating American and Russian data with regard to losses of pilots during the Korean War. Further, during the work of the Commission, the Russian side has received microfilmed documents from the archives of three U.S. Air Force units, videotapes made from gun-camera photography depicting shoot downs of Soviet aircraft, and a list of those Soviet aircraft shot down by the U.S. Navy after 1950.
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Colonel Orlov stated that much work has been conducted over the years researching and analyzing reports that U.S. POWs, who never returned from captivity after the Korean War, were sighted in the Soviet Gulag. In that regard, the Russian side of the Commission has checked information from the memoirs of the Soviet émigré mentioned previously; has visited with U.S. representatives Russian regions where prison camps were once located, and has conducted interviews with potentially knowledgeable personnel. However, as in past cases, no information confirming these reports was found. Nevertheless, Colonel Orlov stated that work on this question will continue.
Looking to the year ahead, Colonel Orlov identified a number of priority areas. He stated that American investigators from the Moscow office would continue their work in the archives at Podolsk and Gatchina. According to Colonel Orlov, the focus of the research group has been on interrogation protocols. In the year ahead, he observed, the focus will be on the reports of Soviet search groups, which went to the scene of U.S. aircraft shoot downs. He also noted that the U.S. side had presented him a copy of the "Gulag Study" for review. He described the information in the document as sketchy but pledged to review it nonetheless.
In the year ahead, the Russian side hoped to widen their contacts with American Korean War veterans, Colonel Orlov said. As noted earlier, the U.S. side has interviewed more than 600 Russian Korean War veterans. On the other hand, the Russian side has interviewed only about 6 American veterans of the Korean War. Colonel Orlov mentioned the list of 23 Soviet pilots killed in action in Korea. He reiterated the Russian side's interest in identifying, locating and interviewing American veterans who may have information on these incidents of loss and the burial places of the pilots.
In closing, Colonel Orlov thanked Mr. Kass for chairing the working group during this session and the other American colleagues for their attention and cooperative efforts.
U.S. Co-Chairman, Vietnam War Working Group
General Lajoie said he was pleased to lead the U.S. side of the working group during this plenum. He pointed out that Senator Smith wanted to attend this plenum and meet with General Bezborodov but was precluded from doing so by a revised Congressional calendar. General Lajoie conveyed Senator Smith's open invitation to General Bezborodov to visit the United States to discuss the many issues still facing the VWWG. General Lajoie stressed this invitation was not just a polite gesture but was extended sincerely in the hope that Bezborodov will find a convenient time to accept Senator Smith's invitation.
General Lajoie noted that the sessions of the VWWG permitted an expression of the American perspective on a number of issues. These issues are familiar ones, even if their significance is often the subject of varying interpretations. The VWWG had a lengthy exchange on the Volkogonov memoirs but reached no conclusions on the validity of these memoirs. The American side made clear their position on General Volkogonov's credibility, General Lajoie said.
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The VWWG had a long exchange on the Quang documents as well, General Lajoie noted. Limited discussions were held on the issue of direct Soviet participation in the interrogation of American POWs during the Vietnam War. The main point, General Lajoie said, was that, whether Soviet participation in POW interrogations was direct or indirect, reports of these contacts undoubtedly were generated, shared by the North Vietnamese with their Soviet advisors, and forwarded back to Moscow. These reports should be available today for review to see if they mention any Americans who did not return from the war. The American side considers these reports potentially helpful in determining the fate of unaccounted-for American personnel.
General Lajoie said the VWWG also discussed reports generated by Soviet forces on the shoot down of American combat aircraft. Such reports, he noted, might have been from Soviet air defense units early in the war or from Soviet advisors later in the war. In either case these reports must have been forwarded to Moscow and should be available for comparison with other information on American losses.
General Lajoie reflected that although the issues before the working group made clear that major differences exist between the American and Russian sides, the discussions were professional and undertaken in a spirit of openness. The U.S. side fully explained their views on the issues and sensed an understanding of their position on the part of the Russian side, General Lajoie concluded.
Russian Co-Chairman, Vietnam War Working Group
General Bezborodov agreed completely with General Lajoie's assessment of the work of the VWWG during the Seventeenth Plenum. He recognized that today, many questions remain unresolved in this working group. General Bezborodov noted the fact that there is no concrete result on a number of important Vietnam War-related issues does not mean that the Russian side is hiding something or is not doing their work.
On the question of the possible transfer of U.S. citizens to the former USSR, General Bezborodov remarked that, so far, no documents have been produced that would prove that this event took place. Since the issue remains in doubt, however, General Bezborodov pledged the support of the Russian side to continue to do everything possible to either confirm or refute this issue.
General Bezborodov noted that the VWWG had discussed Volkogonov's reference in his memoirs to a purported KGB plan [to "deliver knowledgeable Americans to the USSR for intelligence purposes". Again, there are no documents that confirm Volkogonov's assertion. Since the American side takes this issue so seriously and has raised it repeatedly, General Bezborodov promised that the Russian side would do everything it could to validate or dispel this issue, as well.
General Bezborodov observed that some progress is noted in the VWWG with regard to interviews of former Soviet citizens who participated in the Vietnam War.
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There remain 58 names on the list of potential interviewees, and General Bezborodov promised Russian help in accessing these persons. [U.S. Comment: We do not know where General Bezborodov got the figure of 58 names. Just prior to his remarks at the Closing Session, he was observed to be reading the American draft of the VWWG section of the Joint Report. One section of this draft notes that there remain 63 first-priority interview candidates and 55 second-priority candidates for interview (e.g., a total of 188). The American side is not aware of a list containing the names of 58 former Soviet candidates for interview.]
General Bezborodov noted that the VWWG faces a "serious problem" with regard to access to archival documents. He said that the work of the group of specialists at the Central Archives [of the Ministry of Defense, Russian Federation, at Podolsk] could not be called satisfactory. So far, 70 files at this archive have been reviewed with no information of interest found there, he said. General Bezborodov noted that it is up to the Russian side to work faster in reviewing these materials. He said the Russian side agrees that the Korean War-era work in the Central Archives is now finished and the archivists there can switch their efforts to the Vietnam War era. He promised that they would continue their work, check all the documents, and ascertain those that contain information pertaining to the Vietnam War.
General Bezborodov characterized the VWWG sessions as "civil" and conducted with mutual understanding. He expressed his understanding of the desire of the U.S. side for "confirming documents" sooner than has so far been the case in the work of the VWWG. The VWWG faces different challenges in the future. Both sides must look for ways to do the their work more effectively. General Bezborodov stressed again the sincerity of the Russian side, which wants to assess objectively the facts under consideration as much as possible, he said. The Russian side will make every effort to work effectively on these issues.
States, General Bezborodov said that he takes this invitation very seriously. He promised to take another look at his schedule and determine if such a visit is possible. He noted that he "does not feel comfortable rejecting Senator Smith's invitation a second time."
RUSSIAN CO-CHAIRMAN REMARKS
General Zolotarev thanked the working group Co-Chairmen and the rest of the Commission and staff for their efforts during the Plenum. He recognized that important work had been done in each of the four working groups and stated that the work of the Vietnam War Working Group presented the toughest challenges. He again welcomed General Bezborodov to the Commission, thanked him for his contributions to the working group and voiced agreement with his remarks. General Zolotarev recounted that he and General Bezborodov had more than once been together in trying situations, specifically in Chechnya. Based on these experiences, General Zolotarev characterized General Bezborodov as not only brave and determined, but also as very fair and just.
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At the close of the Seventeenth Plenum, General Zolotarev offered his assessment that the results of the Commission's work were significant. In general terms, he stated, the fate of approximately a half million people has been clarified. Interviews with numerous senior Soviet and Russian officials have been conducted. In this regard, General Zolotarev named: Semichastniy; Kryuchkov; Rakhmanin; Baturin; Kokoshin; Manilov; Korabelnikov; and Katushev. Their testimony has clarified many facts.
General Zolotarev reported that two days prior to the opening of the plenum, he received a letter from Mr. Primakov, former Russian Prime Minister, who wished the Commission well and stated that in a previous meeting he had told Senator Smith all he knew about the POW/MIA issue. He had no documentation and no further information to add. Nonetheless, Mr. Primakov expressed respect for the Commission's work and wished success to all.
In response to earlier American requests for meetings with senior Russian officials, General Zolotarev noted that Russian President Putin was abroad during the time period of the plenum and had thus not been available. Russian Minister of Defense Sergeyev was unable to meet during this time period but sent his heart-felt wishes for success to the Commission as noted during the opening plenary session. General-Colonel Manilov, First Deputy Chief Of the Russian General Staff, was traveling outside the country and also unavailable. Mr. Zarudin, the Chief of Southeast Asia Department, had sent in some written testimony to share with the U.S. side. General Zolotarev said the meetings with Sharapov, Gribkov and Kulikov were possible and could be arranged if the U.S. side wished.
Before turning to the issue of the Joint Report, General Zolotarev wished to make a few remarks on the Volkogonov memoirs. He said that he had known General Volkogonov since the spring of 1988. General Zolotarev expressed his belief that, if Volkogonov were alive today, he would not have permitted the text of his memoirs to be published in its current form. General Zolotarev claimed that Volkogonov had a habit of making notes every day and, as a result, these notes had been published in Volkogonov's memoirs after his death. Our task, General Zolotarev concluded, is to study these notes and to ascertain the truth.
In conclusion, General Zolotarev expressed his sincere respect for General Lajoie and the U.S. side of the Commission and his gratitude for the work that has been done. He noted that the plenum was conducted in a friendly and productive manner and hoped future meetings would be conducted in the same manner. Assessing the Executive Summary of the Commission's joint five-year report, General Zolotarev called it an authoritative and substantive document and indicated he was ready to sign it.
U.S. CO-CHAIRMAN REMARKS
General Lajoie offered his concluding words. He stated that after eight and one half years, the Commission could be accurately appraised as a viable, well-established and highly supported activity of both governments. General Lajoie was pleased to learn of the
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recent Russian Presidential directive that reappointed members of the Russian side of the Commission. He assured General Zolotarev that the Commission's Joint Report would be presented and well-received by whichever candidate ultimately won the presidency in the United States.
Describing the status of the U.S. side of the Commission, General Lajoie called it well-organized, adequately manned, and sufficiently funded to do everything necessary. He considered the center of gravity for activities on the U.S. side of the Commission to be the Moscow office. Last night, General Lajoie noted, we heard from U.S. Ambassador to Russia James Collins how well the office is managed by its long-standing and respected chief -- Dr. Jim Connell.
The two major activities of the Moscow office are the interview program and the archival research program, General Lajoie said. He assessed the interview program as working nicely, limited only by the amount of resources and travel time we are prepared to devote to that facet of our mission. The interview program could be even more effective if more leads were developed through the archival research program. Our biggest challenge, General Lajoie stated, was increasing access to the various archives in Russia in order to provide additional information to the interview program and to begin addressing priority questions. General Lajoie reiterated that his chief priority in the future would be to continue to work at increased access to the various archives of the Russian government.
General Lajoie surmised that if this Commission session was a meeting of the Board of Directors of a typical corporation, questions would surely arise on the Commission's specific accomplishments and how much money had been made in contrast to the expenditures of the last five years. But, General Lajoie reminded all, the Commission was not tasked with making a profit. Instead, he concluded, we dealt with human lives and a responsibility to provide families of missing servicemen the information they richly deserve about their loved ones.
At this point, General Lajoie announced that he, too, was ready to sign the Executive Summary of the Joint Report. The two Co-Chairmen signed and exchanged copies of the report, after which the meeting was adjourned.
ATTACHMENT:
"U.S.-Russia POW/MIA Group Renews Commitment" Department of Defense News Release, November 22, 2000.
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